Creativity and Depression?
26 Comments Published by Andrew Leigh January 15th, 2008 in 3rd Party Articles, Being an artist, Happiness.| Creative Development for Artists, Writers and all Artistic Creativity |
I’ve just read Chris Dunmire’s book review of The Van Gogh Blues: The Creative Person’s Path Through Depression, by Eric Maisel. You’ll also find an excerpt from the book, which is certainly worth taking a moment to read.
Now I haven’t read the book yet – only Chris’s review and the excerpt. There’s clearly a lot of powerful stuff here about expressing ourselves and having a meaningful life plan – but the linking of creativity and depression has raised a fundamental question for me.
The question is this: is there really a link?
Eric Maisel talks of ‘the depression creative people experience’, but whether depression is a natural partner of creativity I’m not so sure.
I’ve experienced lots of negative feelings associated with my creativity: angst, anger, frustration, doubt, – and yes, there have been occasions when I’ve felt low and depressed in the small sense of the word. But actual depression is something else altogether.
Maybe I’m thinking like this because I’m a life coach – true depression is outside of my professional remit. Perhaps because of that I’ve never really considered the linkages between creativity and depression.
I’d really like to know what your thoughts and experience are on this subject, even if, like me you’ve not had a problem with it. Your comments will be really helpful to me and other Creative Instinct readers so please do take a moment to comment.
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I decided against putting an Amazon link to the book here. You can find a link to The Van Gogh Blues with Chris’s review. It seemed a bit cheeky me offering the book on the strength of someone else’s work.
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There’s an excellent list of Creativity and Depression Resources at The Creativity Portal.
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You may also like to read:
You Can’t Live Well With a Malnourished Soul
Stop Worrying About Talent And Be Your Best Creative Self
People in the line of fire tend to have a lot to deal with…Psychology has demonstrated that expressing those conflicts is therapeutic…Creatives are just expressing what is around them…They also tend to be the kind of people who like to get involved, to participate in political change…this brings them in the line of fire…so why do creatives so often display emotional problems ? Because they participate fully in their lives, allowing themselves to get involved in the troubles of others…that’s probably the title of my next book, ‘the troubles of others’ , just kidding…I was working on a snappy quote recently, ‘ if life is what happens while you are making plans, then art is what happens while you are making that life…’ Well, anyway…I see artists as having alot of plans to do one thing or another & becoming overwhelmed with what they see as problems, either their own or around them & feel the need to express that…of course artists often express great beauty & nobility…but no one ever talks about that, not a good media sound-bite…with the bad comes the good…here is another topic…why are creatives so unbelievably happy & joyful & sane & optimistic ? See, it is all about the author’s perspective…Which says to me that the people writing & producing all these artist tragedies are really to blame…jealousy or competitiveness perhaps ? Truthfully creatives just emote out loud in great range…so we hear them louder…everyone else is depressed & screwed up, we just don’t hear them…hope this helped…
Sari – thanks for that – a lot of interesting stuff there, especially the notion that the positive story of being an artist is one that’s too often ignored. Maybe I’m guilty of that on this blog – I’m not sure.
It certainly would be a useful topic and one I’ll definitely use.
I guess this stuff is in the air!
I have thought long and hard about the possible link between depression and art. However, I am not convinced they walk hand in hand. Yes, many artists experience depression and feel the pangs of its wrath. However, I work with severely emotionally disturbed individuals who suffer from those same maladies. Yet, they are not artists or “creatives” for that matter.
Also, my hesitance to associate depression with artists might be because it is a stereotypical trait. It is akin to speaking of “starving artists” or “kooky artists”. I just can’t bring myself to think of artists as a depressed bunch. Depression is a disorder which effects many people. I think artists who have symtoms of depression may feel the discomfort at a heightened level due to their emotional and spiritual sensitivity.
Roger – yes, I guess we’re all affected by how we are ’supposed’ to be.
Sheree – I completely agree. You’ve put it very well.
I am a frustrated, angry artist who hates his craft and hates living without it. I have suffered depression for years on and off. Sometimes I wish that the creative voice would silence so that I could live how I perceive everyone else lives. It never goes away though – even when I ignore it.
someone online – thank you for leaving this comment. It must make life hard to feel that way. It’s hard to give a response that doesn’t sound like some dumb platitude.
Perhaps the book I discuss in this post could hold some answers for you. It seems to be aimed directly at artists in your situation. I hope so.
“True depression is outside of my professional remit”? What do you mean? Sounds to me that either you’re saying that you do feel depressed sometimes but you daren’t admit that to yourself or your clients, or that you’re judging whether or not you are creative because you never get depressed? I’m not sure which. Just because you’re an artist does not mean that you should be depressed.
The key to depression is in recognising that it not something that you “get”. It’s in understanding that depresion is a “process” that people “create” in the present moment, basically, through negative self-talk, negative emotions, unhealthy physiology and breathing. It’s a result of actions that you are creating yourself. I can easily make myself depressed by not eating properly, talking and feeling rubbish inside, mostly about all the things that have gone wrong in my life, and shallow breathing and bad posture. It’s that simple. Oh, and the point about eating properly should be the first step for anyone depressed. Low blood sugar almost guarantees that you will feel low. From there it’s a small step to talking crap to yourself about how bad your life is and then feeling terrible about it all.
The fundamental principle is that our nervous systems do not know the difference between something that is real and somthing that we vividly imagine. Talk rubbish to yourself, evoke negatie emotions about yourself and your nervous system will soon think it is real and start producing biochemical and physiological changes in your body to accompany that negative state, spiralling your whole system (mind, body, consciousness) downwards.
The point about artists with depression is really another topic. It has to do with the fact that at birth we are confronted with a true paradox – either conform with society (the group), or be an individual. You cannot do both. You must choose. Many artist chose to be individuals, but then they feel like outsiders, drop-outs, or just simply different. This can lead to psychological consequences such as depression. Also in the west, artists are not valued, in the UK children are no longer encouraged to be artistic at school from about the age of 11 onwards. That’s why in my country, most people have the drawing, singing, or dancing abilities of eleven year olds. This not being valued
only serves to reinforce an artist’s low sense of self and alienation. The way to overcome this is to understand that this paradox only exists at the level of mind. This is the zen or third perspective on the paradox – the one that frees you from feeling like either you have to conform or be an individual. From this level of consciousnes you understand that you simple “are”, no need to conform no need to stress your individuality, those need to either be an individual or fit in with the crowd is a problem that only exists in your mind, just thoughts that agin you think are real, but in fact are not. So go out and live happy, joyful and productive lives and understand your own uniqueness and greatness as individuals. There has never been an indiviudal exactly like you in the history of the universe and neither will there ever be. If you do feel depressed it is important to understand this.
Johnny – some very forthright views there, and I feel that I do need to answer some of your points.
First of all I do agree with you about the power of positive and negative mindsets. You’ll see plenty of posts on here about that.
But i don’t believe it’s ‘that simple’, as you say above – and unfortunately some people do ‘get’ depression.
Regardless of whether people have ‘got’ depression or have ‘talked’ themselves into it through negative language and thinking, deep set depression is not to be taken lightly and is not something that any well trained life coach would address, unless they had other more appropriate training. Coaching is not a therapy and we are not trained to deal with issues that require therapy. That is the very simple reason why I say that depression is not part of my professional remit.
There are plenty of people who are feeling negative and feeling depressed to some extent (but who don’t ‘have depression’) who can benefit from straightforward coaching techniques that will help them think, talk and live their lives more positively. I work successfully with clients like this on a daily basis. But there are other people who need help at a much deeper level than I or other coaches can offer. I think we are doing a disservice to people in this position to pretend otherwise.
Hi Andrew – thanks for the response and thanks for clarifying what you meant by “outside of my professional remit”. Point taken on the difference between life-coaching and therapy.
The way I wrote about my “solution” to depression does sounds very flippant and off-hand, making dealing with depression sound very easy, when of course it’s not. I had recurring depression from about the age of five onwards, getting more sophisticated as I got older. Of course there are different forms of depression. Mine was cyclical, although not manic-depressive. Also, it part of every humans bio-rhythms that we go up and down. It is a complex subject matter.
However, there are fundamentals truths in what I said. Personally, I don’t like the sound of “deep-set depression”. It’s distorted linguistics, in my opinion. Nonetheless, if you would call what I “had”, recurring depression for over 25 years through most of my adolesecence and into my adulthood, deep-set, then I would argue that understanding “process” – how not why – is the key for many people “with” depression to turning their lives around. While depressive thoughts and feelings do still come up for me, that in the past could have lasted for days if not months, now I am able to deal with those issues in hours if not minutes.
The foundation for me in turning my life around was in blood sugar. Eating sensibly and regularly. There is a website, the Hypoglycemic Health Association of Australia, run by doctors in Australia that I think are doing really exciting work in researching the effects of low blood sugar on the nervous systems and its role in causing many physical and mental illnesses, depression included. Google it if you are interested, or if any of your readers are. I would strongly urge any of your readers who “have” depression to check their diet and get their blood sugar levels checked out by their doctor. That’s the first step.
The second step, in my opinion, is in understanding that, ultimately, it’s not real. What you think cannot be real, it cannot be a true reflection of reality, as our brains can only take in so much information, acting like a filtering mechanism. That information is then distorted by the matrix of our past – our conditioning, our prejudices, our biases, our projections, so what we think at a conscious level simply cannot be real. It’s a physiological fact. Our five senses are only tuned into certain EMF frequencies. Hisenberg’s uncertainty principle – a particle can be either a particle or a wave, depending on whether you are looking for a particle or looking for a wave – there are numerous scientifc understandings, in physics and biology, that reinforce the view that our perceptions of reality are ultimately limited. And this is a good thing, because it frees us off from our thinking, from our reliance on our minds all the time.Then we can experience – I’m not asking anyone to believe a word I have said – you can check everything I say in your own experience – we can experience a level of consciousness where we are no longer burdend by our story, of everything that’s happened to me and all my problems and what I am going to do tomorrow. In short of always being either in the past or in the future in our heads – in “our thoughts”. Instead, we can just be here now, experiencing life, trusting life, of going with life instead of against it. The trick is to practice letting go of your thoughts, and in time this becomes easier and easier. It takes practice, but it is do-able.
The subject of manic-depression is something I find tricky. As you know most psychiatrists see it as a chemical imbalance in the brain that they address with drugs, to restore that imbalance – or as a last restort even ECT – I mean how barbaric!
Negative states create “measureable” biochemical and physiological changes in the body. If a person does not eat properly and is constantly in negative states then the brain begins to physically change – its been proven. In other words, manic-depressives may be people who have been moving more and more out of balance over many years. The problem escaltes over time. The key then is to bring them back to balance. It would be interesting to see if whether through eating properly and through understanding certain key principles – blood sugar, Hisenberg’s uncertainty principle, state management, how not why, Korzybski (the map is not the territory), etc – these people could be hepled to turn their lives around and live happy, productive lives. I certainly would like to think so. As someone who in the past has felt depressed for many years, I know it can be a living hell. And there is just so much untapped potential in humans being that never gets tapped because everyone feels so bad inside.
But hey, don’t believe a word I say. I’d expect nothing less. If you are “depressing yourself” then try it out. Many people are unwilling to take self-responsibility for their lives. I know that may sound harsh, but really, as the Buddha says, we all suffer. Half the problem is in recognising this and still “choosing” to laugh at life.
Drop the seriousness. People are far too serious in many ways. When I was depressed I was so serious about everything. I didn’t help one bit. In fact it made things alot worse.
Om nama. Peace. Love.
Hi Johnny
This is a perspective about depression that I’ve not understood before. I had hoped to arouse debate on this topic and this is fantastic addition which I’m sure will help and enlighten others.
Thank you so much for taking the time to clarify your position and I wish you continued success with this approach.
Andrew
Many artists experience rejection of their work, which is emotionally very difficult to cope with. Sometimes it’s not understood, or others make minor criticisms not meaning to be discouraging, but it cuts.
For example, I once did a portrait of an beautiful elderly woman, and everyone loved it, says it captures the essence of the her, but she said, “I don’t look that old.” I actually had tried to flatter her by making her look younger than she did. Hands down, everyone else that knew her, thought it was better than a photograph. It was very disappointing. I had labored over it, loved the woman, she was a delight. I kept the portrait.
If you make a sculpture, and you are told, it would look better in bronze, or ceramic, you second guess your choices. You end up self-doubting your work, your visions, your choices.
One has to develop a very tough hide, yet maintain the sensitivity of your vision of what you are creating, whether it’s writing, painting, etc. You have to connect to that essence of it all, yet, then, detach. That is a difficult skill to develop, because ones art is so very, very personal. It’s why we get up in the morning, it’s in everything we look at, what we breath, it’s what drives us.
Many artists retreat, become isolated so we can work in our bliss and not be affected by the negativity of others, not be interfered with. Even loved ones that offer “advice” or “constructive criticisms” can be crushing defeatist energy to contend with.
Worst yet, are those that say things like, “You should make this, or you should make that.” We’re not robotons, we don’t create always to please everyone, in fact, it’s impossible to please everyone. The reality is, we do it to please ourselves. We need to please ourselves in what we create. We want to please others in what we create.
If you have to contend with: “I’d like this if you used these colors, or that material…” or “I just don’t get it”, or :I always knew you were weird.” It can be maddening, hurtful, confusing. So we withdraw into ourselves and keep the unwanted advice and negative comments away while we work. Then when we’re immersed, so absorbed we lose track of time and finish a piece, there is always criticism of some kind.
I really don’t know if it’s the creative mind that leads to depression, it’s the choice of living a life creating art.
Sometimes we can forge ahead, shrug off things, other times, it comes crashing down and it’s difficult to cope. There is so much self-doubting to begin with at times. Other times, everything falls into place–and THAT is what we artists reach for, that bliss of our vision coming out the way you want.
When the creativity in the studio isn’t meshing, I do something else creative, like gardening, or decorating the house, or read a good book.
In my family, there is a genetic pre-disposition to depression, there have been suicides, hospitalizations. I work hard to manage things, and change my behaviors and choices if I feel it starting to creep in again. I was diagnosed with a clinical depression, it lasted 10 yrs. So, I am acutely aware, and will not allow myself into that black hole again.
Deborah – thank you for some excellent and valuable points. Much food for thought here.
ok my secret is if u wanna be creative and u wanna kick depressions butttt then u just have to try and elp others with your creative work. now if u beliv in god and if u have ever been addicted to helping others only then u will know depression is so minor and feeling depressed wont even make any sense nemore. dont be selfish and look at ppl who cant elp themselves and dont make that a reason to improve ur skills for urself. u make it a reason to improve ur skills for elpin who really needs elp and u will c what im addicted to and we all will kick depressions sad butttt. its very easy beliv me u be selfish and u will only make it more difficult.
love u all
Thanks mr. t.
Taking any action helps people feel more postive about themselves and helping others is probably the most powerful positive action you could choose – both for yourself and others.
Thanks for raising such an important point.
Depression is very reasonable and it’s a part of my system. I’m mostly depressed about my mistakes and sometime when I start to feel like a super man I pretend to feel depressed for others mistake. OTHERS like mom dad etc.
I figured if u learn to face your reason behind the black cloud and if u then regret any past action u will simply have to think about something to do which will make u feel that u truly regret and when u truly regret u push the off button. U will feel a lot lighter. It’s an amazing feeling. Now u may have a thousand reasons or just one it doesn’t matter.
Relax.
Robin hood is a good man.
to me depression is like a slap from god n towards realization now is it for good or for bad is an option we deserve.
From a professional designer/digital artist who also writes creatively and composes music . . . . ..
Depression is evil, it is an illness that transforms everyday happenings into a living hell.
It can fill you with self loathing and hatred that is so overwhelming it may actually kill you as the thoughts of self termination repeat again and again.
When you are creating the euphoria becomes a mania so immense and addictive but the fallow times are dark and all-consuming. . . . . nothing and no-one else exists but the abyss . . . it is above all utterly selfish and that very selfishness is the one thing that makes you hate yourself even more . . . . No amount of apologies could ever excuse what you become.
Hello all,
I know this is an old, post so this is a shout in the dark. Hope it finds a kind home.
the brush is dipped
with fear and hope
to pierce
the canvas white
tis more upon
yon sheet good friend
than paint
reflected light
it’s finished yes
and once again
comes now
the hardest part
per chance to show
this thing I love
the pain
I call my art
to ones held dear
I bear my all
a soul
they fail to see
encased within
this canvas square
the soul
I’ve shown is me
so gauge my art
a nod of head
kind words
without attacking
but my heart hears
ye loves me not
it seems
my soul is lacking
Please be kind, I am a painter not a poet. My battle with depression may have more to do with people around me not understanding my art. They don’t get it(and thus take little interest in it). After a little web research, I found I am not alone. That in itself released a weight off my shoulders.
I found a quote from a fellow artist:
“for me the cure for depression is having someone I can relate to, having a single friend who’s as obsessed about(my passion) as I am.”
I have taken this to heart and am now looking for my obsessive other.
Good luck to you all
Thanks Steven for the poem. I’m a painter and photographer who also battles with depression. It’s hard for non-creative people to understand why you don’t just get on with it and churn out work. The artist’s need to create art is such a primal urge which cannot be denied without a consequence.
I find myself becoming depressed if I find excuses not to create art. Because it’s my greatest passion it is even more painful when I deny it some outlet and starting painting again sometimes feels like an extremely hard thing to do.
I agree with Steven that having someone who shares that passion is vital. But I also think your own personal reason for creating art in the first place can be something to think about. For myself, I think the need for approval from my family was something negatively attached to my art. However, I finally got to the point where their approval is irrelevant to me because I fully believe in my art. Of course we would all prefer a response which is positive but I think when you get to the stage where you finally believe in your art and do it from that standpoint it takes away the need for approval to some degree. Well it has done so for me.
Now I’m just dealing with the motivation and creation process!
It’s nice to know that we are all struggling with similar thoughts and are not alone.
What is missing from this conversation is the definition of art. While a major example, paint & brush is merely one of its expressions, I find it disappointing and invalidating to continue to perceive “art” in a single way.
du – Thanks for you comment but I think you are missing the point of this post which is about the connection between CREATIVITY and depression. And I really don’t see anywhere in either the post or the subsequent comments that perceives ‘art’ in a single way. That said I do use examples that are pretty mainstream and accessible.
Read this blog’s posts and comments and you will see many instances where an underlying acceptance of the broadness and plurality of artistic creativity is simply assumed.
What you won’t find is an attempt to define ‘art’, or to philosophise around it. As far as I’m concerned, and for the purposes of this blog, if the artist perceives their creative output to be art then that’s good enough for me.
Finally – three things:
First: this blog is called The Creative Instict, not The Creative Intellect (not that I’m anti-intellectual).
Second: suggesting that the lack of a definition could possibly invalidate the amazingly thoughtful and insightful comments that precede your own is both ridiculous and disrespectful.
Thirdly: don’t be so bloody pompous.
Thankyou John for listing the site for Hypoglycaemia. I was diagnosed with it when I was 9 and have struggled with its symptoms for many years. Additionally I am a very creative person, painting and art in many forms has been for me an addiction. I love it so much.
On the point of Hypoglycaemia, a year ago I was preparing myself for going up Mt Snowdon. For most people its probably not that difficult, but for someone who was never gifted in sports it was a huge challenge. I also was prone to fainting, dizziness, migraines under stress.
For almost two months before the trek I walked at least 3 miles everyday, a third of it uphill. I spent from 40 mins to an hour everyday on walking. The exercise cleared my mind, I felt fresh in so many ways, when I came back I was looking forward to the day. I also found I had more drive to make healthier meals for myself and as a result my mood was almost constantly peaking at great!
Such small changes in your daily routine can have such a huge impact on your life. After my holidays I went back to university, a combination of alot of work, stress, bullies made me lose track of my new diet. I stopped eating healthy foods, I stuck to take outs and sugary foods. 6 months of this and recently I have been experiencing the strangest symptoms.
When having a spell I no longer have the strength to even lift the telephone, a few weeks ago I sat on the carpet in my showerroom and didnt move for three hours. I was exhausted. Compeltely deplete. Worse still I had a few weeks of university left to go and plenty of assignments to deal with. To get myself through I lived on Proactiv dietary supplement tablets. They helped somewhat but didnt stop these strange episodes.
Depression was another issue. I became an angry person, well not quite angry as irritated and snappy. I kept doubting myself, I was in a horrible place with no way out. I hated being depressed again, it had returned after two years and boy did it come with a vengeance.
I am starting to feel a bit faint right now, I know why, I had a small portion of pasta earlier in the day and a perhaps 5/6 pieces of monster munch. Last time my blood pressure dropped way low as well.
I know what I have to do, my biggest investment to come will be in food and the time I spend doing exercises. I AM going to start exercising again. I AM going to start eating healthily.
I hope other creatives look out for themselves. I feel that as a creative we are receptive to outside influences in ways not many others are. I find myself feeling what someone else is feeling. Sometimes by talking to someone and looking at the books on their desk I want to suddenly tell them I’ve picked up why they are reading Kubrick or why an aging man is listening to Japanese deaf metal. But its also a bad thing, feeling emotions in such a strong way. I had to stop watching the news because it was breaking me.
I hope we all find our way out of the tunnel, sometimes it does seem such a long way away.
I suppose I typed the question Is there a link to depression and creativity because I needed some answers, nothing as yet has helped me. I am very much so into Fine art, sick of half hearted doctors appointments, and fluffy mental health workers. I just don’t know if I should as my psychologist put it suffer for my art work as he’s also a bit mentally lost, or try and seek help for my years of depression, which only seems to get worse as I get older. If any of you want to see my art work, visit my pest like blog, fixingisabell.tumblr.com So long,
Isabell
if you choose to seek help then maybe the book I mention in the article could be a place to start. Just to be clear – I haven’t read the book myself and can’t vouch for its worth. I simply used a review about the book to start a conversation. I’m also not an affiliated seller of the book – in other words I don’t get any payment for mentioning it.
The details again are: “The Van Gogh Blues: The Creative Person’s Path Through Depression”, by Eric Maisel
My best wishes – Andy
Hi everyone. First, let me say that I am a dual career person with a small business in the world of art and a career in finance. I have 20 plus years in both industries. I love my work – both of them. I have never suffered from depression type symptoms in my life. That is, not until I was struck by a car 10 months ago. Since then, the pain in my neck, back and primary arm has been reoccuring and terrible at times. The experience of the accident, the pain that plagues me, these things have caused depression like symptoms and have created a creative block for me.
So, in my own experience, artists who are depressed are probably not depressed because they are artists or vice versa. Some people have chemical imbalances, some develop their emotions through a series of life occurances or traumas – but I know depressed lawyers, doctors, cops and dancers. It is possible that creative careers attract more people with mental health issues because they need a theraputic outlet for their feelings so they become an artist or musician to share their inner feelings with the world – getting them out feels less damning.